Poll: Most Americans Don't Believe Evolution
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For more on controversial issues like this visit my other post: Christopher Hitchen's Atheist Challenge Answered
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According to a Newsweek poll done in march of 2007:
Only 13% of Americans believe in naturalistic evolution (that is that God had no part in evolution)
However, 48% of Americans believe that God created "humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so"
30% of Americans took the middle ground responding that they believed "Humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process"
9% remained unsure.
And it seems that this poll is not a fluke as many other polls from different polling companies have reported very similar findings. Go to polling report and look around at some of the other polls if you'd like.
It seems, to me, that these results are good news for Mike Huckabee who has gotten some heat for saying that he doesn't believe in evolution. Those kinds of attacks seem quite strange in light of America's views on the origin of life on earth.
I mean why would you attack someones view when it lines up with about 78% of Americans?
But all that aside, Im not even sure why you would bring up this question in a presidential campaign as it has nothing to do with what it takes to be president.
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All people are stupid some of the time, and some people are stupid all of the time. Aparently 78% of the people are stupid this time.
No Ralph Im saying its politically stupid to attack someone for holding a postition that is hugely popular.
Oh and whose to say that naturalistic evolution is correct anyway?
My high school science teacher, Doc Harrison and my Sunday school teacher whose name I can't recall. He taught us that there was no conflict between science and the Bible. And 99 percent of other scientists (some of whom believe that evolution was the mechanism by which God created man and the rest of the creatures of the earth). However, the Baptists had other ideas, e.g., no sex standing up because it might lead to dancing. And, as the Presbyterian minister in "The River Runs Through It" said, "Methodists are Baptists who can read."
However, you may be correct to say that it may be counterproductive to attack Huckabee for expressing a view held by so many ignorant Americans.
Theistic evolution is different from naturalistic evolution. One says God guided it but where the other said it all happened by random chance...
Wow I am now mixed up altogether,
I am keeping my thoughts to myself.
It sounds safer
Good discussion , don't forget to turn the light out before you go to bed
I am a Christian, and I beieve that God created the world in six days, and on the seventh day he rested; just like the Bible states. But even if I wasn't a Christian, I could look at nature and life itself, and know that there must have been a Divine Creator. I made top grades in school, I have a high IQ, I was a teacher at one point, I consider myself an intelligent person. So intelligent in fact that I don't try to deny the obvious.
The problem with some people is that they don't want to admit there's a God, because they want to live their own corrupt ways. So, they try to find ways to disprove Him. But all the theories in the world will not change fact.
I don't know why someone would believe that God had a hand in evolution, but refuse to believe His book. Why would His book say that He created the world in six days, if he created it in many years? God could've created it immediately, but He set the time frame for us.
well, many people believe that genesis 1 and 2 were written in a poetic form and were meant more to reveal the character of the creator and less to explain the process of creation. So for them the theistic evolution and genesis don't conflict.
That's what I was taught. The Bible is full of contradictory passages and others which conflict with what we have learned through science and the humanities since it was written. It's called the advance of civilization.
Ralph I think you're absolutely and completely wrong about the bible but I hope you understand why I don't want to have that debate on this hub. Maybe when I have more time we can make competing hubs on the issue?
Okay, but in my experience debates on this and similar subjects never change anybody's mind. My views are in cement as I assume yours and blessedmommie's are. Despite my rhetoric, I respect your views and am not interested in trying to change them, except when they interfere with an objective which I feel strongly about such as embryonic stem cell research, birth control, gay rights,separation of church and state, women's reproductive rights, comprehensive sex education in public schools,etc. I recognize the contribution of our common western Judeo-Christian heritage to our civilizaztion. However, I think civilization's progress wasn't frozen in Biblical times.
I understand what you're saying Ralph. Perhaps we can debate those issues you spoke of through hubs? I could even give you naturalistic reasons for my beliefs on each of those issues if you'd prefer...
I'll be happy to engage with you as they come up in our Hubs. I'm not sure what you mean by "naturalistic reasons." I find "utilitarian" and "libertarian" reasons more persuasive. I don't like to see religious views imposed on everyone legislatively without a compelling social interest and strong consensus for doing so. People who are opposed to abortion should not have abortions. Some of the believers in the "sanctity of life" support capital punishment. I worry more about the sanctity of the lives of adult humans than of microscopic zygotes.
by naturalist I mean non-religious.
P.s. do you think that only people who oppose murder should not murder?
The really weird thing is how out of step America is from the rest of English speaking Western world - it that % is correct then I suspect the only other countries which would poll a similar % are muslim states - odd, or ironic or something?
The problem is partly in the notion of 'belief'. Science is the body of falsifiable knowledge that has not yet been proven false. There's no place for belief in this. A scientific theory has a predicted set of consequences. A single contrary instance logically proves a theory false, while no finite number of positive instances can prove a theory true. Science must always be our best 'guess' yet, which might be true. That is simultaneously its beauty and its power.
Belief is an important (for some people) psychological need. Its natural environment is religion (and politics) where dogma takes the place of logically falsifiable theories.
I'm not sure what murder has to do with our discussion. I hope you're not equating early abortion with murder. If you are, that's an incorrect use of the English language. Every month or so, there's an anti-abortion demonstration in front of the Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, Michigan with banners and picket signs saying "STOP MURDERING CHILDREN" and other similarly inflammatory and innacurate slogans. These kinds of statements should not be allowed by the Priests and Bishops because they tend to wind up a certain number of fanatics who are shooting doctors who perform abortions. The Shrine of the Little Flower has a long history of extremism. It was built by the "Radio Priest," Father Coughlin who was a virulent anti-semite supporter of Adolf Hitler during the 1930s until he was ordered off the air by the Bishop of Detroit.
As long as we're citing public opinion polls, do you agree that the fact that most Americans think Bush is a lousy president makes it true?
Anyone who believes in the supernatural is by definition being irrational. Does anybody find it interesting that higher I.Q. means less statistical likeliness to believe in god? So many Americans trust their educated elite with pretty much everything, except for when it comes to a tale of magic and miracles that has been forced into minds at a young age and simply demands more explanation about the world than it really explains, this fairy tale they "know" is true. Nobody can actually come up with a logically convincing argument in favor of the existence of God (they would be horribly rich, famous, and then likely assasinated if they could) so religious people are left with having 'Faith', which means belief in something without any actual evidence. For most educated people this just does not make sense and does more harm to our society than good. Anyone sitting on the fence about the issue (or even if you're a hardcore irrationalist) should read/watch some of the work done by the evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins. If you have a genuinely scientific proof of 'God' or anything supernatural, or really any logical reason to believe a supernatural theory over Darwinian Evolution then I urge you to submit it to Mr. Dawkins, or even James Randi, who offers "a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event".
I draw my own conclusions from these results: 78% of Americans are afraid of being consigned to Hell after death, so they'll believe anything their preachers tell them to believe. It's called Pascal's Wager and it's basically a cop-out.
I am always amazed at how this subject stirs such debate. The very intensity of it suggest that very few of us are truly comfortable in our beliefs. Thumbs up politico for stirring.
I don't beleive this poll is accurate at all. Is it one of those polls where people can vote numerous times? I think most sensable and more importantly educated people realize that evolution is logical based on the overwhelming evidence.
No, This poll was a scientific poll. Plus the results have been found by numerous other polls. Just because you don't like the results doesn't mean its wrong...
P.s. Naturalistic Macro-Evolution is not supported by overwhelming evidence...
I find that yes, in the Bible God created the world in 6 days, but what is not recorded is time frame. Every day we loose miliseconds on the day. Over time that could acount for a very long day. So it is possible that God created the world in 6 days, but that 6 days could have been years millions of years ago... Just a thought... I am religious, but I also have a science based brain. I find that many of the things in the Bible can be factually accurate on a scientific scale...
For example, the splitting of the Red Sea... Is actually a mistype (so to speak). The original text it's the Reed See, and once every so often it truly does split, depending on the time of year, gravity, and where hte moon it.
A lot of the text in the current Bible is typo from mistranslations throughout the years...
I'd definately be in the 30% that God guided the process.
"For example, the splitting of the Red Sea... Is actually a mistype (so to speak). The original text it's the Reed See, and once every so often it truly does split, depending on the time of year, gravity, and where hte moon it."
Now isnt this a prime example of the mistranslation of the Bible? Over the last sixteen hundred years of so the Bible has been translated into many different languages and versions in order to make is readable for people of the time. Through those translations meanings and ideas are lost and created by those who are doing the translations. The versions of today are even translated in many different ways so I think it is not correct or sensable to take any part of the Bible as literal truth. The bible did not devinely appear. A group of religious leaders had a conference and selected out of many gosspils the ones that are in the Bible. They could have assembled it to any agenda they wanted to fufill. So to say that the earth must have been created by God in six days just because the Bible says so is not rational. Also, as stated above Genisis is written is a poetic form and is not supposed to be taken literally. So to argue about how long six years actually was is a waste of time.
Also the thought that naturalistic evolution happened by chance is quite maddening to me. There was no chance involved at all. A trait is carried on if the creature surives, survival of the fittest. It is hard for me to see that as chance. The key factor in naturalistic evolution is this survival of the fittest and to dissmiss is as chance is not a close look a lack of looking closer at the theory.
And to Politico, would you say there is more evidence to support evolution with divine help that there is to support naturalistic macro evolution? Thats seems to be the concensus of the poll but what evidence is there for it outside of faith? Can it be seen in fossil record?
I'm sorry dew fan but Naturalistic Evolution is completely dependent on random chance. Naturalistic Evolution says that there is nothing to guide the system, all mutations are due to random and spontaneous mutations.
Also I'm glad you brought up the fossil record... ever heard of the Cambrian explosion?
oh and while you're trying to explain that one... where are all the transitionary fossils?
The system is not guided it is reactionary. There are actions and reactions and the most fit survive. Perhaps we see the definition of chance differently.
Chance-the absence of any cause of events that can be predicted, understood, or controlled. -So could it not be predicted that the most fit will survive? is that not the driving force behind naturalistic evolution? It seems that the result is constant that the most fit survive. It seems to be a typical result so to me that seems little like chance. The result is typical and constant.
On to the Cambrian explosion and transitionary fossils... visit http://www.fossilmuseum.net/Paleobiology/CambrianE if you would. here are some selected passages:
The theory of the Cambrian Explosion holds that, beginning some 545 million years ago, an explosion of diversity led to the appearance over a relatively short period of 5 million to 10 million years of a huge number of complex, multi-celled organisms.
The Cambrian Explosion is the outcome of changes in environmental factors leading to changes in selective pressures in turn leading to adaptive diversification on a vast scale. By the start of the Cambrian, the large supercontinent Gondwana, comprising all land on Earth, was breaking up into smaller land masses. This increased the area of continental shelf, produced shallow seas, and expanded diversity of environmental niches in which animals could specialize and speciate.
The debate persists today about whether the evolutionary "explosion" of the Cambrian was as sudden and spontaneous as it appears in the fossil record. The discovery of new pre-Cambrian and Cambrian fossils help, as these transitional forms support the hypothesis that diversification was well underway before the Cambrian began. More recently, the sequencing of the genomes of thousands of life forms is revealing just how many and what genes and the proteins they encode have been conserved from the Precambrian. The explosion of external form in the fossil record is what we see, but more gradual adaptation was taking place at the molecular level.
A facinating aspect of the Cambrian Explosion is its apparent speed over some 10 million years. From this it is reasonable to infer that expanded genomic complexity occured much earlier, perhaps over a billion years, prior to the morphological (phenotype) diversity that appeared in the Lower Cambrian. In recent years, research has shown that genomic complexity "happens" in many ways, including duplication and deletion of genes, cascades of genes, and, in complex organisms, entire chromosomes can be affected. Interesting also, is that such geneomic scrambling is an important mechanism in the etiology of cancers in animals.
It is important to remember that geological history contains numerous periods of slow evolution punctuated by periods of rapid evolution, which Steven J. Gould called Punctuated Equilibrium. The rates of evolution generally depend on rates of selection, which in turn depend on rates of environmental change. It also depends upon the existing genomic diversity on which selection acts. Mutation rates tend to be slow and steady, and in the absence of environmental change, slowly accumulate in a population. It is selective pressure that weeds out the mutations that are detrimental or neutral to survival, and retains and multiplies the mutations that are beneficial within a population. For a population isolated in a new environment, rapid selection can lead to speciation, and in the Lower Cambrian, to radically new forms that we now group in the Phyla of modern times.
None of that sounds too extreme for there to "have to be" an outside designer pushing evolution along...
I dont see how the Cambrain explosion is devastating to Natural Evolution. Help me out if you would. I mean that sincerely not arrogantly.
Now I find it interesting that Creationists and people believing in guided evolution (though definitely not the same) grip so strongly onto the gaps in scientific understanding. These gaps seem to be eagerly saught after in present day knowledge and understanding. When one is found, ie Cambrian "explosion", it is assumed that God, by default, must fill it in. What about the rest of the fossil record that does play along with natural evolution? Are these few gaps so devastating? Do you really think that there is no other explenation other that God?
I find it illogical to demand the complete documentation of every step of any narrative, in evolution or any other science. You might as well demand, befor conveicting somebody of murder, a complete cinematic record of the murderer's every step leadng up to the crime, with no missing frames...
Also only a small fraction of fossils fossilize, we are lucky to have as many intermediate fossils as we do. We could easily have no fossils and the other sources for evolution, molecular genetics and geographic distribution would be overwhelmingly strong.
Evolution makes a strong prediction that if a single fossil were to be turn up in the wrong geoplogical stratum the theory would be blown out of the water. Which i assume you agree with? If a rabbit were to turn up in the precambrian it would destroy the theory.
I see there no need for and outside force in evolution. Where do you see it needed?
Dew fan... I don't really have time to respond to everything but in regards to the Cambrian explosion would you agree that mutation rates are extremely low? and in essence they are natures little screw ups? and that the vast majority of mutations are in fact degrading rather than beneficial?
So then it would seem that in the extremely rare case that mutations occur they are overwhelmingly negative mutations. So it is logical to assume that beneficial mutations are extremely extremely rare. Thus it must take extremely long periods of time for complex systems to develop advantages and complex systems not to mention developing into whole new species...
And yes I understand the explanation you gave... I've heard it before. Sure its logical but the big problem with it is that there really isn't any scientific evidence to support it.
That is really my main problem with the theory of evolution. There are many times where the evidence seems to contradict basic evolutionary premises but instead of admitting that there are problems most evolutionary supporters vigorously defend it. They create theories that stretch the imagination and say they are the only logical conclusion.
However you dont seem like one of those people as you appear to be open to a civil discussion. Thats refreshing.
Thats a pretty scary thought. I would think that more people would at least take the middle ground. Believing that the Earth is 10,000 yrs old is crazy.
Well just because you believe that evolution is false doesn't necessarily mean that you believe in a young earth...
I see what you are saying in regards to beneficial mutations and yes agree. But it doesnt seem to be absurd to think that under greater environmental presssures the rate at which the beneficial traits are passed would increase does it?
I dont see how you can say that there is "no scientific evidence to support" evolution... With a total lack of evidence evolution would have never been theorized... I thinks Dawrins Origin of Species has plenty of cases in which the theory of evolution makes good sense. What exactly do you mean no evidence?
I must say though that the theories and "stretches of imagination" are hardly a stretch of the imagination compared to the concept of a being outside of time guiding mutations and having mutations speed up or slow down at its will... Have you ever heard or the 747 example of evolution? Well i find that God is the ultimate 747 in contrary to the story...
ps sorry i havent been on i while...
"Only 13% of Americans believe in 'naturalistic' evolution." Popularity polls aren't a good way to resolve scientific issues. And, to put it politely, religious leaders have a rather spotty record on accuracy in their scientific pronouncements.
It's shocking that this is issue is dividing America. CP, I am a big fan of yours, and you definitely make me think about the entirety of most issues, but I think you are wrong on this one. But so what?
I have read every one of your Hubs and from what I can see, I think that you and I have much more in common than either one of us has with the current leadership in this country. I will respectfully agree to disagree with your evolution position, but I still think that, on the whole, once religion is taken out of the equation, we want the same things for our nation: peace, economic strength, hope for a better future and the right of every single American to believe what he or she chooses to believe.
My point is that we -- all of us on these Hubpages -- need to start working together to find common ground on issues like taxes, defense, budget deficits, our billion dollar a day trade deficit with China, Freedom of Religion, Freedom of Speech, the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, and on and on and on.
Sometimes I have given you a hard time, and you have returned the favor quite adeptly on occasion (well done!), but we are both Americans with (as far as I can tell) similar interests and similar goals. Let's all of us try to find common ground on the things we all share, and let's all of us agree to disagree on things that we don't share. That's what America is about, isn't it?
Sorry its been a while since I've checked up on this post and I don't have time to respond in detail to dew fan... I'll try to come back and do that later.
To JamesRay: Yes, you're correct. Thats what America is about.
Only 13% ???? is it real ...../??
Newsweek poll is always being atractive......
Only 13 % ?????
Regards
In politics you tell people what the majority want to hear even when you know very well it is wrong. The new generation of Americans want a change that will do away with that generation of politicians who instead of poviding guidance they just keep on telling people what the majority want to hear even when it's wrong.
This is very sad. It is not too surprising, though. There has always been a strong current of anti-intellectualism and anti-high culture sentiment (a cousin) in America. As far as your distinction between theistic selection and naturalistic selection--shrugs--what's God? In Indian philosophy it is a all-pervasive, highly abstract creative and destructive force. Though I, personally, don't need to believe in a guiding hand, if that idea helps others bring cohesion to their experience, I see no harm in it. I do see harm in destroying science teaching and research, however--an undeniable result of "Creationism" aka Unintelligent Design.
Not surprising at all. America it´s a very young country (if compared with others) so its understandable that evolution it is not something one can discover easily over there...
Boy.. you got beaten up here.. College politico... but that's OK. I for one would hate to have to think I came from an ape! As the poll shows.. you are far from alone.. irregardless of what the responses here have indicated. :)
wow
Science itself has told us recentally that we are not related to Neanderthals in any way shape or form. Quantum mechanics tells us that anything is possible so why attack religion. It gives a great message and hurts no one as long as it isn't taken to the extreme.
if god creatd the world on the 1st day...man on the sixth...weres the dinosaurs...man wasnt around till millions of years after...but then ud say dinosaurs were b4 that...but then there was no world for them to live on :|.....evolution obviously occured n were still evoluting now...sure doesnt the average height of a human being increase by each decade!!!!...there is proof ov evolution... the Australopithecus the found in ethiopia...named "lucy"
Before man was put on earth God gave the world to the angels. Lucifer was in charge during this time and this is when he gained his following. This is all in the parts of the Bible that they left out. The books that they decided were not good enough to be in the Holy Cannon.
according to the bible...we are all descendants ov Noah and his family...so that wud make us all related...n i thought incest was a sin!
Okay, every cultare has a great flood story. Plus you have to take in to account that back then the world was a lot smaller in the eyes of those that lived in it. They still believed that the world was flat. I'm not saying that Christianity is the one and only religion. I'm just saying that there are indeed answeres to almost every question if you look for them in any religious system.
so...wots the answer...is it a sin or wot...the bible contradicts itslf far too much and is very hypocritical... i wanna believe...but the more i read this bible the less i do...and im only on the genesis
That is the problem maybe God gave a diffrent story to diffrent people so that they could better understand his message. You just need to find the story that relates that message to you the best.
The Catholic Church let go of any literalist interpretation of the Bible ages ago, and it is still working as a religion. Having faith in God does not require one to put away reason.
college politico;Your hub is fantastic and your comments throughout this thread are as well. One thing I learned a long time ago, is the fact that people are far more convinced when statements contain obvious wisdom in them in contrast to those with sly and insulting remarks sprinkled throughout {a hint that they lack any real substance to contribute}. Smart-A--ness will get converts from among the moronic-thinkers but true wisdom is the bread of the intelligent.
BTW; I believe the Bible and so do all of the professors I've known in my life {I discussed it with them}. Surveys of the scientific community have shown a high percentage of belief in creationism.
I believe that all men have God`s law written on their hearts,..that is precisely why we know it to be wrong to murder. Hitchen`s atheism doesn`t allow him to become morally indignant about any sort of behavior. Afterall, ethical standards are merely conventions of men,..different strokes for different folks.
Humans, alone among primates, have 46 chromosomes, unlike the rest who have 48. I don't see how a naturally-evolved spiecies would lose 2 chromosomes. I personally believe that the ancient Sumerians are correct, and that the Annunaki genetically engineered humans. It just all happened too suddenly (in my opinion) for naturalistic evolution to be possible. If we were uncovering modern human fossils that dated back a bit further it would seem more plausible. But within a few thousand years (which is not long at all in the scheme of things) we supposedly went from neckless, robust, primitive, very strong "cavemen" to much smaller-bodied, larger-brained, hairless beings who genetically engineer fruit and other life forms; and don't forget, only 46 chromosomes (2 are fused together to take up one space..sounds pretty un-natural to me). Also, humans are very poorly adapted to the planet. If you stuck a human out in their "natural" environment completely nude with no tools or modern equipment (like the rest of Earth's creatures) and most of us wouldn't last long, only the smart ones. I do believe that the apes evolved to the neanderthals and Homo Erectus, but I also believe that naturalistic evolution ends there, and that something/someone else created us. And yes, I believe in God. I believe that other beings created us, but that doesn't mean that I don't believe in God, as my guess is that he created these supposed beings before we existed, and therefore in a sense DID create us. Well that is my 2 cents. Thanks.
EDIT: I noticed an error on my post. Humans actually have smaller braincases than the neanderthal skulls. What I meant was that our brain FUNCTION is much more advanced than any other "creature of Earth".
I am not at all surprised by the findings of this poll, and remain amazed at how many people deny the rather obvious existence of some form of CREATOR in the universe.
While it is scientifically OBVIOUS that Darwin's process of evolution is a strong contributing factor to the current form of human life here on Earth, so many people MISTAKE that to mean that there is no God.
In fact, there is absolutely no reason to draw that conclusion based on the "theories" of Charle's Darwin. I'm going to have to take the middle ground too, and say that God's design actually HAD to include a method for life to evolve. There is a method to God's madness - It's called evolution. :)
Hmm very interesting! I think it is funny that despite all the actions of Darwinists and evolutionists, the majority still believe God had a hand in it! I personally think that the 'theory' of evolution is a poorly supported hypothesis. As for the medias criticism of politicians based on their view of evolution, it shows their bias.
Great hub!
Mutations are not necessary for evolution. Offsprings often replicate their parents. A tall man and a tall woman is likely to have a tall son or daughter. Or even better, an asian couple will have an asian child, a white couple will have a white child. In a related sense, the weaklings in the environment dies off without being mature enough to reproduce. The strong survivors will have a higher chance of reproducing. Also note how males often has to compete for the female. How is this not logical? Nowhere does it state that naturalistic evolution is solely dependent on mutation. Mutation is only one of the ways a population can evolve.
Another thing, why do you think races vary greatly depending on where they are from? Maybe people with darker skin survived better in hotter places. After all, people with darker skin gets sun burns less frequently, because of the amount of "melon" in the skin.
Now, I don't think a book that descended from so many years ago can be as credible as the evolution of modern ideas and discovery.
However, likewise, I do not deny the existence of god either. Being an atheist is like a theist, trying to prove something without evidence. However, I do think the chance is low that there is a god.
@blessedmommy
Also to point this out: just because one is smart, does not mean one is omniscient. A smart person can successfully support any illogical claim. Have you ever tried to support both sides of a debate? And intelligence is opinionative. An IQ test cannot fully measure one's potential, nor can having the top grades in school.
I too am intelligent by human standards, but I support the opposite view from your's. Does that mean we're both correct? Or that we're both wrong? Intelligence too can have its own ignorance.
(Sorry if I made a grammatical error or if my logical presentation is flawed in any way. English isn't my first language, and I'm still only 17 years old.)
***Oh and I meant melanin, not melon, in the skin.
from this information i can conclude that only 13% of Americans are not retarded
If only 13% of Americans "believe" in naturalistic evolution then it just goes to show how poorly the typical American understands science. Fix your schools and catch up with the rest of us.
I would be willing to bet that close to 70% of all Americans also believe in flying saucers and something like 50% believe in Big Foot. Maybe 80% believe in Area 51.
How many Americans still believe that Capitalism is a benevolent system that really looks out for the "little guy"?
People can be lead to believe in a lot of garbage but that doesn't make it true. I read recently that a significant percentage of Americans believe Elvis and JFK are still alive. Is this ignorance, or stupidity?
Ignorance is curable by obtaining knowledge, while stupidity seems to be catchy.
Recently I read a long, interesting story about the most recent homonid fossil find, Ardi as she is called in English. It took decades to come to conclusions about Ardi and make some general observations about where, if anywhere, she fits in with human evolution.
Yet this hard work, this dedication to getting it right was dismissed so easily by Creationists as "just a monkey skeleton they want us to believe is human."
Well, when you so easily dismiss findings and just pass them off as consipracies, it's no wonder so many ignorant people follow the flock out to drown in the sea. Do you really hate knowledge so greatly that you have to trash anything that doesn't fit into your misunderstanding of how the world works?
America, do not be too surprised or angry when all your ideas come to a sudden end and your nation is taken over by countries that surpass you in intelligence, ability and power. You have lost your edge and are now slowly creeping into the chasm that all great nations head towards, eyes looking backward, feet blindly marching forward. You see only where you have been, not where you must go, even if it is painful for you to go there.
The trashbin of history is filled with once great nations. With this fixation of fighting knowledge with lies and superstition, and prohibiting the growth of intelligence, I believe you will be there quite soon.
48% of Americans Believe that God Created us. That's coming a very close to 48% of Americans Dont Believe in Science. Isn't that like saying nearly half of America doesnt believe in Gravity?
I think the biggest thing i can suggest about this to % who belieive in god creating us is...Prove it. Ok Darwinism has a few holes in their theory, but they have at least brought Beilievable results so that we can debate over it.
Where as the Bible has so many holes in it that it makes a cullinder look full. The bible wasn't Compiled (Here i use that loosely) till about the 3rd century or there abouts, Over the years there has probably been more changes to the story than the stock market. This means that hardly anything the Bible says could be taken as true, in a fair test.
How do we know the Original stated god built the world in 6 days? For all we know it could have been created in 89. The 7 day week was brought in by the Jews as per the begining of Genisis. For all we know they could have gotten it wrong and we've all been living falsely from then on.
It only takes a slip in writing and 2500 BC Writing was not a popular activity. Are we convinced that Moses spoken to god via a burning bush? and then wrote it down? How do we know that Moses could even write?
So i say this, until i can see proof that god created eveything and he comes to meet me personally in all his Omnipotent Glory and perhaps do something to this ***** up world, i will believe the theory of Evolution.
Ok, first off, "hmmmmm", and a lot of others, not necessarily on this hub, seem to think that God and science must contradict each other. If you are thinking in such a narrow manner, at least think of it as this: God is a concept that is INTER-CHANGABLE with the Scientific method, and vice versa. Whatever the driving force that is responsible for universal existence is called, it is still the same. Also, to the poster who dubbed UFOS and homonoids as "garbage" should not be posting his opinion in a manner which deserves any consideration. If you are so entirely sure that UFOs and/or bigfoot is garbage, then you have obviously done no research. If you had, you would at LEAST consider the possibility, not shun those who do. Thanks for reading, guys(if you did, that is, haha).
This debate is pointless. There is no credible evidence that there ever was a God. It's complete fantasy. Like Star Wars or Lord of the Rings. On the other hand there is so much evidence for evolution that you simply couldn't live long enough to read all the books and papers on the subject. Occassionally the science is flawed and something thought to be true turns out to be untrue, so the scientists admit their mistake, correct it and carry on in the pursuit of knowledge. Religious people never admit their mistakes. The Bible has so many errors but the zealots keep on insisting it's fact and rattling their pots and pans and threatening righteous retribution with fire and brimstone. The Qa'ran is a more accurate translation than the King James version but really, the original message or meaning has long been lost and the only thing left is a fairy tale. But the bottom line is the debate is pointless because you can't talk sense to stupid people. If all they can say is "I believe it so it's true. I have faith" then how can you get through to people like that? I hate to insult people and everyone is should be entitled to there beliefs but when are these people going to wake up? Religion has been the biggest cause of (or excuse for) war, murder and persecution ever known in the history on mankind. Just because the Salvation Army opens a soup kitchen, that doesn't make up for things like the crusades, the holocaust and the inquisition. It wouldn't be so bad if the message was good or even consistant. But it's just a constant stream of stupidity. Religion only came into exisance as a means for the better educated minority to keep control of the ignorant (still to this day) majority. Just leave all these stupid folk to their folly and raise your own kids with a bit of common sense and logic. And God help 87% of Americans.
It appears to me that the commentors who are espousing the Genesis position and maybe those who are in the "intelligent design" camp haven't read any of the real research that has been reported by many scientists. For example, Kenneth R. Miller (expert witness in Kitzmiller vs. Dover trail and college professor) has several books out that detail the answers to many of the points raised by some commenters. For example, the reason why humans have 46 rather than 48 chromosomes. Furthermore, the fact that DNA evidence provided by endogenous retroviruses shows that humans have a common ancestor with chimps, orangutanes and the great apes, and does so with an astronomically high probability, gives powerful evidence for the evolution story. These are just a two examples provided by biological science and there are (as pointed out earlier) so many more that no one can read them all. And this is just one branch of science. Physics, biology, astronomy and archeology (ie the natural sciences) all have data supporting each other and the evolution story. The only conflicts arise in the Genesis (written by an unkown human author)story.
For those who don't have time to read a complete book, google Kenneth R. Miller and check out his videos on the 46 human chromosomes. Or search "endogenous retrovirus evolution". Or go to fora.tv on the internet and review the videos under the science tab.
I know this won't change anyone's mind, but at least they will be arguing from an informed position.
Evodevo, thanks for the tip off to Kenneth R. Miller's videos. Very interesting!
There really is no such thing as 'evolution'. That theory has enough holes in it to drive an army through. These so-called 'mountains of evidence' have never been seen because they don't exist. Furthermore, just because a lot of contentious nerds think they're smarter than everybody else doesn't mean they are, and it doesn't prove evolution. The majority of Americans are not stupid, they understand science well enough, and they understand that facts not in evidence are not admissible. The fascist tactics and cry-baby antics of these so-called scientists are a dead giveaway. They're scared that they're guilty, that they're sinners like the rest of us and will have to answer to God, that they're not so important at all and only trying to avoid getting a real job where they have to produce something useful to society.
I'd also like to have you notice how the evolution defenders always resort to the same old tricks when they're losing. There is no evidence, nobody believes what has not been proven and sounds ridiculous anyway, so they come back with 'but...gravity!' What about gravity? It has nothing to do with evolution, but 'look...shiny!' Wait though, the lack of evidence... 'NO NO, look here, gravity! Shiny! Everybody look away now...'
'The Truth' has some nerve calling himself that. Everything he posted is a lie.
ok
Look up a guy named Lloyd Pye. His work is amazing
Just thought i'd throw a thought into this, i've been heckled so many times by the same old "if we evolved from monkies, than were are the inbetweeners?" argument and i did a bit of reading (not much i must add). It turns out we didn't evolve from monkies, instead we and monkies both evolved from the same thing. millions of years ago* there must have been something that resembled both a monkey and a man (a caveman perhaps?) and due to certain circumstances, they were split apart, and took residence in 2 very different habitats. One half evolved into what we now call monkies, and the other half evolved into - yes that's right - us, humans. did god put those cavemen there? i don't know, nobody does (hence why it's fruitless to argue about this tbh) but what i do know is, that evolution makes alot more sense to me now. Dont ask me what my point is, i just wanted to settle one of the reasons why so any people reject evolution.
*yes, the world is older than 10,000 years. Scientists look at distant galaxies, some of them are millions of lightyears away, and since light can only travel one lightyear a year, than the light must have spent millions of years reaching us at earth. if we had only been here for 10,000 years, we would only be able to see galaxies that are 10,000 lightyears away or less. the fact we can see these distant stars, must surely prove the earth is older than what many christians claim it to be? I'm not trying to destroy religion, i'm not an aetheist, i'm just pointing out interesting facts.
I don't see why people don't believe in evolution and Darwins theory of evolution, take a look at animals that are domesticated to do things like run faster(race horses), to herd livestock(sheep dog), or even to produce more milk(cattle). Implanting instincts and increasing a species performance IS evolution even though there aren't any physical changes( i assume most people think it has to change physically to be considered evolution)
If we can create "man made evolution" then idk how you can refute the basic concept of evolution
I think evolution is ridiculous. I love how scientists are supposed to be the most realistic and logical thinkers of our time, yet so much of science is crackpot theory and simply just an attempt to rationalize and define everything through our language and poor mental skill. If you really think about it--and not just accept it like a blind dummy--evolution sounds just as false and make-believe as anything else. I mean, please, everything happening by coincidence and just somehow miraculously becoming what it is today? That's so laughable I can barely type it without cracking up. If it did happen that way, then God sparked this so-called coincidental miracle. Honestly science itself is hilarious and really just another human outlet to try and explain the unknown. Sad because it has been presented to us through our Lord and yet so many fools fail to see this and accept it. Not to mention all science is relative to itself from the first basic theory concocted, and where do you think that theory came from? Someone's mind just to explain it to themselves. So in the end, accept God and be done with it. Quit trying to "make the world a better place and rationalize everything" because really, the world isn't getting any better (in fact it's just as bad, does anyone notice how all our problems are just being transferred into other formats instead of truly being conquered?) and we just aren't meant to explain everything this world offers.
This all from a believer of God. Thank you. Have an amazing life. Seize the day. Carpe Diem. Don't be angry if this offended you, I guarantee the argument is not worth making and you will realize the truth very soon. Also, anger is just plain useless anyway and the world would be a lot better if this was realize. Along with countless other things. Oh man... I'm rambling again. Good bye.
(Im not even sure why you would bring up this question in a presidential campaign as it has nothing to do with what it takes to be president)
I would assert that how one thinks, what processes one utilizes to make decisions, and what personal biases one holds all have a tremendous amount to do with a person's ability to lead a nation.
It would be quite chilling to think that the guy in charge of the greatest nuclear arsenal in history makes his decisions on whether or not to use them on the results of a daily horoscope, the answers he gets from a magic 8-ball, and belief in the infallible accuracy of a book he once read that claims humans can live for three days inside the belly of a whale.
I might want to look for someone a little more rational to put on the ticket.
Martin Story-Kapusta, (...evolution is ridiculous.... science is crackpot theory....evolution sounds just as false and make-believe as anything else....God sparked this....Honestly.... accept God...we just aren't meant to explain....This all from a believer of God....)
Which God? Are you talking about Allah, or is Jehovah back in the Old Testament business of ass-kicking infidels? What's next, Holy Jihad on Charles Darwin? Or do we simply go Christian IED on science's punk ass?
(Oh man... I'm rambling again)
Rambling I can handle - I'm hoping you don't explode.
wow, we are a stupid country
Wow..... you are a stupid country. :(
I do however find it very entertaining when people say that "evolution has holes" it's cute..
(wow, we are a stupid country)
Satan,
300,000 Expected For Glen Beck March (and growing more stupid by the second!)
this is pathetic it makes me puke that such a high percentage don't believe in a theory that makes perfect sense. quantum mechanics is a theory. Atomic theory is a theory do you not believe in atoms because their "theoretical" so to speak we need another intellectual revolution
I have toyed with ideas in my own mind of how creation was. I am firm in my belief as a Christian, but I also believe that there is time in the Bible to allow for things such as dinosaurs or whatever. Evolution, I personally doubt in my mind, because of the lack of evidence, but I think there could have just been many, many animals and species that are now extinct and cannot be found living, but evolutionists think just because they were similar they evolved from one another. This can lead to false beliefs. I for one support College Politico on this matter.
In my own personal opinion, I think if you believe in god then you must be naive. The more you believe the more naive you must be.
Suppose I came up to you and handed you the bible, only i changed the names and title. Then I told you that this book is the very basis of human existence. After reading it you would think I was crazy, which you should.
Am I really to believe in a book written that long ago, in an era where 99% of humans were illiterate, an era where these same people thought the earth was flat or an era where everyone believed the sun revolved around the earth. I could go on and on but the answer is NO.
This book seems to be more myth than fact, a really thick comic book.
C'mon people, use your heads. Are you sure Jesus rose from the dead or maybe he was just born on krypton and his father Jor-el sent him here
Evolution is incomprhensible if it is by pure chance alone in fact it is IMPOSSIBLE.Take each organ like the eye, reproductive system, men and women who complement each other for reproduction. The fertilisation etc. etc. The possibility that it happened through millions or even zillions of years by trial and error and "natural selection" is just incomprehensible. And we are taking about one system. And when we extend it to the entire human form as well as the millions of other species with their forms of reproduction it is really impossible tha natural selection alone can be responsible.
Another thing which is balderdash evolution theory is not essential to science it is only essential to atheists for their beliefs.The world as it is will do just fine if there is no theory of evolution. Computers, cars,modern agriculture, sattelites and the space program among others would have been no different with or without evolution theory. So those evolution fanatics just accept that you are no less guilty of blind conviction that you accused others who believe in God are.
As far as most of the world is concerned the theory of evolution is just that a theory which is too fantastic and cannot be proven with snippets of so-called evidence which does not even scratch the surface to explain the existence of life.
I think to dismiss the exitence of God is just as ignorant to dismiss the concept of evolution. Evolution is the basis to why we heal and how we have so perfectly adapted to live in this world. God could have been responsible for the Big Bang and he could have created homonids with the ability to evolve. I hate it when ignorant and angry Christians completely rule out evolution! Explain homonid fossils to me then. All evidence leads to evolution being proof positive.
Everybody... just read Dawkins.
In the Greatest Show on Earth he is just presenting evidence for Darwinian(Natural)Evolution. He is not gonna go on a rant against religion like he does in The God Delusion.
And for the existence of god and his playing a major role in it I would like to refer you to Ockham's Razor...
Does anyone actually read these comments? I keep seeing "Evolution is stupid because it can't happen with random chance herp derp." I mean i'm not trying to be a dick but all that says to me is you don't understand what your fighting against. Look, I get everyone is entitled to a belief/opinion but please for the sake of the human race, open a book on a subject FOR AND AGAINST the topic so you already know what the opposing side believes. Now that I got that off my chest, there's tons of evidence for evolution. Considering you have the internet I suggest you go to google and try to do some research. Yes it's somewhat difficult/tedious the more you delve into it but if you actually care you'll stick to it. Lastly on people who keep claiming evolution doesn't provide answers for the origin of life.....all I can say is *sigh* /facepalm. Please google the definition of Evolution so you understand it has NOTHING to do with the beginning of life. (that would abiogenesis)It only talks about the gradual change through several natural mechanisms ex adaptation, mutation, gene transfer ect.
you're* woops I should prob spell check xD
i found this website when i searched: 'why do stupid people think that evolution is false' first of: lol. second evolution is obviously real, anyone who doesent know that shoud check their facts, before they go on websites like this and say idiotic things. and lastly, the only people that call evolution a theory and arent kidding themselves, is the vaticant
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people." ~House M.D.
This thing is still going on? Wow!
There is no evidence for macro species-to-species evolution. Those fossils could just as easily be monkey fossils. It says in the bible all life came from water so i guess that explains how we are related to monkeys and other life forms,but we didn't come from them. Humans have always been humans.
Alex me old mucker
"Humans have always been humans"? The bible isn't the only book out there. Read some of the other books before making yourself look like a complete retard. People such as yourself will never realise how ridiculously stupid you look to 99% of the planet. That goes for all of you weirdoes. The magic man in the sky did it all? You will truly never understand how much others laugh at your ignorance. As i'm laughing now. Small minded backward little men you are. Maybe one day they'll invent a pill to make you all better. Failing that i vote for locking you all up in the nut house. They'll give you crayons and you can draw pictures of Gandalf.
Here it is again for the people sitting at the back. Anyone who says there’s no evidence for evolution is an idiot. How much evidence do you need? A new born baby wouldn’t live long enough to read all of the evidence if said baby lived to be 100. If they put the evidence in audiobook form none of us on this page would live long enough to listen to it all. There is literally tons of evidence.
If you don’t want to read any of the evidence you’re an idiot! If you’ve read the books (which I’m guessing you haven’t) and don’t understand them you’re an idiot! If you’ve read the books and don’t believe them you’re an idiot! If you’re ignorant mind is made up and no amount of evidence will ever be enough then you are an idiot!!!
You think the people who don’t believe in the bible haven’t read it? I’ve read the bible and all I can say is it’s an interesting read (and it is evidence of nothing). You’d base your life on a book written by a bunch of goat herders thousands of years ago? The bible was written by men not god. The bible is full of mistakes (let’s face it, it’s 1000’s of years old and was bound to have mistakes in it). It’s just one silly book that you think has more weight than the tens of thousands of modern science books you ignore. You come to a debate and you don’t even try to arm yourself with the both sides of the story. Not just that, you deny the evidence against your argument even exists! You are an idiot.
Not just are you an idiot but you’ve damned yourself. Damned means that you’re progress has been halted or blocked (like a damn in a river. it means the same thing). Now as normal people learn and progress, you and people like you haven’t progressed in the last 2000 years. Doesn’t the bible say damnation is bad? You refuse to learn. You’ve damned yourself. You are no more advanced than the ignorant goat herders who wrote the bible in the first place. And you refuse to free yourself by opening your mind to anything other than the bible. That is damnation and again it makes you an idiot.
I can’t think of any part of religion that anyone would believe in that wouldn’t make you and idiot. Next time you come to a debate such as this at least read some books on evolution so can actually DEBATE and not just spew stupidity. That way you might not come across as a complete idiot.
Kane Bauer and others who agree with his comment: You don't need to hate on people who have a different belief than you. I'm a Christian and believe that God created the world. My dad takes the belief that God made the world through evolution. But those who disagree I don't hate, but you don't have to call us idiots. Wilson2.0
I don't hate anyone. I used to take the view that everyone can have their opinion and all will be fine. But right now i'm sick of having sugar coat the truth. If you have you faith and it gives you comfort that's fine. If you don't require proof because your faith is strong that is also fine. But if someone shows you proof and you ignore it that is just plain stupid. If a person is shown proof but won't even look at it and then tells me the proof doesn't exist then that person is an idiot. There's no nice way to say it and it would be dishonest of me to sugar coat it and pretend there's a grey area.
You're entirley welcome to your beleifs. Anyone believing what they choose does not offend me in any way. Good luck to you. But if anyone wants to debate the value of my beleifs they should at least try to educate themselves on what my beleifs are as i have educated my self on the your beleifs. Ayone who can't or won't do at least that much is an idiot. It's not about hate. It's about a lack of tolerance of the ignorant.
I don't ignore the truth. I'm entitled to my opinion as everyone else. I just don't like the fact that people who have different beliefs than us label us and call us idiots. I don't hate people who have different beliefs or think they need help. In fact, all my friends except two believe in evolution. It's just the fact that people call Christians idiots for our beliefs. People don't need to hate others because of two beliefs. It's pathetic. Darwin's an idiot, God's an idiot. It just doesn't matter. This is not right.
Wilson2.0
You've missed the point. Or ignored it. I talked about ignoring the EVIDENCE and then saying the evidence doesn't exist. I'll try to make it more simple for you.
IF YOU IGNORE EVIDENCE (EVEN EVIDENCE YOU DON'T LIKE), REGARDLESS OF THE SUBJECT AND THEN ARGUE THAT SAID EVIDENCE DOESN'T EXIST THEN YOU ARE AN IDIOT. YOU CAN'T REASONABLY ARGUE ANY POINT IF YOU COMPLETELY DENY THE EXISTENCE OF THE EVIDENCE THAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU. ONLY AN IDIOT WOULD DO THAT.
Now pretend we're on a different subject. Pretend we're debating whether Rocky Marciano beat Jersey Joe Walcott. I argue that Marciano won and you argue Walcott won. I produce an old newspaper clipping showing Walcott unconscious on the floor and Marciano with his hand raised in victory. The headline says "Marciano KO's Walcott!". But you say "What clipping? There is no clipping. I didn't see any clipping." You could go online and find all kinds of information about the fight records of both men but you won't. You could go to a library and find an infinite number of books that would disprove your theory, but again you won't. You could watch the DVD but don't. If anyone mentions that this evidence exist and is readily available to anyone on the planet, you say "it doesn't exist, there is no evidence that Marciano beat Walcott". IF THAT WAS YOU'RE APROACH TO THAT DEBATE WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU WERE BEING AN IDIOT? I would say "yes".
If you read the evidence and then said that you still thought that Walcott won that would still make you an idiot i'm afraid. You'd still be entitled to your opinion and if it gave you comfort that would be fine with me. It wouldn't make you right but it might make you think before declaring to the world that the evidence doesn't exist.
This might not apply to you but if you go back and read some of these posts there are a lot of folks that say there is no eveidence that evolution ever happened. These people are idiots. The evidence is there. You don't need to look very hard to find it.
I might not be polite in the way i've tried to make my point but i'm not wrong. I'm just rude. It's not patheitic. It's just how i have to get my point across because being polite still gets the same stupid "there is no evidence" responses. And if you are really of the opinion that "it just doesn't matter" then why are you here on a page where everyone else in the debate, on both sides, thinks it does matter? Do you get my point now?
I would agree that many people who believe in creation have not picked up many science books, but the same goes for many in that 13%. I wonder how many of that 13% believe it because professors who use really big words say so. All I'm saying is that there is ignorance on both sides.
wow as if people actually think evolution doesnt exist, keep giving your money to the churches ya dumb sheep foloow those that are more corrupt then the devil and see what happens feeble minded people who cant think for themselves but have someone tell them whats real and whats not it makes me sick
They attack him because most people ARE stupid. Most people who believe in the theory of evolution don't even know the full theory, and just how many "missing links" there are (and I'm not even talking about origin of species). Evolution is dead. If you don't want to believe in god don't, but come on people, you have to be smarter than this.
Ralph Deeds Level 6 Commenter 4 years ago
Why would you attack someone for saying he doesn't believe in evolution when 70% of Americans agree? Are you saying that science should be decided by majority vote. Denying evolution is a knuckle dragging view no matter how many people agree. Are you familiar with the phrase "tyranny of the majority?"